Moments when a piece of entertainment completely rocked you.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:16 pm

'Kay, PL, I will walk you through this.

You claimed that Heath Ledger's death is the only reason Dark Knight succeeded and got a sequel. The actual box office statistics suggest that people really like Christopher Nolan's movies and that Dark Knight Rises would've been made no matter what. You then started a tangential rant about how box office releases don't indicate quality and pretended that this had anything to do with what we were talking about. This is because you are an idiot.

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:06 pm

PhoneLobster wrote: People like it because it's the more recent bat man and bat man nerds will be RAGING bat man nerds. Fuck em. Bat man isn't even that great in his own right, and that movie was fucking abysmal. I stand with my minority of strong anti-batman backlash brothers on the internet and say "fuck you dark knight, fuck you for sucking so hard"

I was thoroughly disappointed with the Val Kilmer and George Clooney Bat Man movies that followed Michael Keaton's. If they made another Clooney or Kilmer Batman, I would not have even watched it. So I did not just like whatever was the most recent. The Christian Bale ones I really enjoyed (haven't seen the 3rd yet) and they brought me back into the fold. In my opinion, Heath Ledger's Joker really made the movie.

Yes, the media overplayed the news of his death. But that had no basis on my attendance or enjoyment of the movie or his personal performance. Likewise I don't care what else Nolan made. I enjoyed these movies on their own.

But as you said, you are in the minority on this (96% liked it on Rotten Tomatoes, that's pretty freaking high approval). Given that, it should not be hard to accept that a lot of people genuinely did enjoy the movies. And much of the 2nd's success is attributed to Heath Ledger's performance, not his death. If Heath Ledger were to be in the 3rd, I suspect it would have done even better as well. Hell, I'd have seen it by now.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:00 pm

Why do you guys even try holding a conversation with PhoneLobster about media? It's pretty well established at this point that he will just grow a hate-on for anything that becomes massively popular.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:36 pm

I think I found a picture of Phonelobster

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:16 pm

I submit that Mark Hamill was the best Joker...

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:19 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:I submit that Mark Hamill was the best Joker...

Seconded.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:32 pm

erik wrote: Yes, the media overplayed the news of his death. But that had no basis on my attendance or enjoyment of the movie or his personal performance. Likewise I don't care what else Nolan made. I enjoyed these movies on their own.

Yeah, my first thought when I heard Heath Ledger died was "Oh no! I hope the movie still comes out on time!" After that, it sunk in that an actual person died, and that I wouldn't see him in more movies, but at that point, I was already sold on watching the movie.

Prak_Anima wrote:I submit that Mark Hamill was the best Joker...

That is always the first voice I hear in my head when I think of Joker. Also, I was about 13 or 14 when B:tAS came out.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:19 am

erik wrote:Yes, the media overplayed the news of his death. But that had no basis on my attendance or enjoyment of the movie or his personal performance. Likewise I don't care what else Nolan made. I enjoyed these movies on their own.

Well, good for you. You haven't actually managed to describe anything much good about it except Heath Ledger's performance, which again while quiet possibly the best thing about the movie was really only barely passable and arguably the least good Joker ever, and which WAS overated largely because he died and his death was heavily publicised in relation to his "final performance" (note, NOT actually his final performance, again, Dr Parnasus...).

But you have said you liked the movie and made some mildly reasonable claims and haven't suggested that it is a great film or anything.

But you see that ALSO puts you in a minority SMALLER than my own. Because the majority are fucking fan boy idiots like Chamomile that embaress you and themselves with "sequels = good movies! Box office = great art! Heath Ledgers Death WASN'T promoted as part of the media blitz of movie promotion! Christopher Nolan is a FUCKING GENIUS for all those great movies he... hasn't ever actually made!" etc...

I mean just look at this thread My position while hostile is basically "This movie sucks everything about it is bad, and the only reason it succeeded is Batman + dead actor wins free awards syndrome + massive paid marketing". And the fans of the film? They pull the bullshit Chamomile did or pull a "YOU MUST JUST HATE EVERYTHING SHUT UP WITH YOUR TALKING AND YOUR THINKING AND YOUR REASONS FOR DISLIKING THINGS I REFUSE TO ANALISE!"

So one last time. Congratulations for mildly liking a movie and feeling (oddly) confident that a moderately acceptable acting performance was something you liked but believe you were not primed to like by the "The greatest performance of his tragically short life" media blitz lead up.

You sound almost rational and sensible. Unlike the vast majority of Batman film fans. As demonstrated on this thread.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:35 am

PhoneLobster wrote:Heath Ledger's performance, which again while quiet possibly the best thing about the movie was really only barely passable and arguably the least good Joker ever

There's no way that Heath Ledger made a worse Joker than Cesar Romero, and it's a really hard sell to say he was worse than Jack Nicholson's Joker.

Mark Hamill might be better, might not, it's been a really long time since I've watched Batman: The Animated Series, but voice acting is different than regular acting, so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

And those are the only Jokers I really remember.

Can't be bothered to follow the rest of the argument.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:37 am

Mark Hamill also voiced the Joker in Arkham Asylum/City, so he's still got it. Whether we go with an older Joker, or a CGI one, I want him to do the Joker in the next Batman reboot.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:40 am

No PL, we say that you hate everything because we know that you personally hate everything all the time.

Now, your actual point was that no one would like the movie if Heath Ledger had lived, but of course, that's stupid as shit, because people liked Memento/Prestige/Batman Begins/Inception.

We understand that you hate the things that other people like, but instead of just believing that you are the one true voice that knows what quality is and everyone else is a figment of your imagination, maybe you could just accept that you are a crazy person who hates things that are popular because [no good reason].

Prak_Anima wrote:Mark Hamill also voiced the Joker in Arkham Asylum/City, so he's still got it. Whether we go with an older Joker, or a CGI one, I want him to do the Joker in the next Batman reboot.

He's officially stated he will not be doing the Joker in anything anymore.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:20 am

He said that before AC too. DC somehow found enough money.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 am

He once tweeted that he'd come back for an animated adaptation of The Killing Joke, if Warner decided to make one.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:11 am

Found out that Marble Hornets is filmed here in Alabama, around Tuscaloosa. It's completely irrational, but it made me smile.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:03 am

Just poking around a Sword and Sorcery (White Wolf's D20 imprint) book, I think I broke the monk just by looking at the book. With a bit of creativity, and a few fighter levels, a few feats from Player's Guide to Monks and Paladins and CW (Roundabout Kick), you can have an 11th level monk punching someone 8 times in a round, on average critting at least once due to a 17-20 or 1:5 crit range, for x3 damage. This is 115 avg dam per turn, or 165 if you're using Merciful Palm Technique and striking for non-lethal (+wis on unarmed damage with non-lethal punches). At 12th, you can take Ftr4, Focused Strike (sacrifice attacks to up crit range), and possibly convince the DM to let you take Gtr Two Weapon Fighting even though you only qualify when drinking a potion of Divine Power. This would mean you sacrifice one of your total 9 attacks per round for a 16-20, or 1:4 crit range, and crit twice a round on average. For 149L/214NL. Which I believes drops pretty much any average 12th level character, even the barbarian (assuming initial con of 16, +6 from greater rage). Hell, the only CR 12 monsters it doesn't one shot are the Elder Black Pudding, Kraken, Colossal Monstrous Scorpion, and Mature Adult White Dragon.
Yes, granted this is all NL, but ideally you'd have a rogue buddy that then performed a Sneak Attack CdG on the unconscious, helpless opponent.

Completely dumb and pointless, I know. But I found it amusing. Basically the feats are TWF, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Plaguecat Praya (+1 unarmed attack bonus when charging, x3 crit on unarmed attack), Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Ten Animal Praya (+2 crit range with Monk Weapons, added after any multiplicative effects), Imp. TWF, Roundabout Kick (CW, extra unarmed attack at same bonus when you crit). At 12th you pick up Focused Strike (allows you to sacrifice extra attacks to add 1 to your crit range per sacrificed attack) and Gtr TWF if you dm lets you waste your feat on something you only qualify for under the influence of an item.
*A sane reading of Focused Strike implies you can't sac AoOs for extra crit range. A munchkin reading is "well, it doesn't say you can't..." but that's ten times dumber than this entire dumb thing.
Items were +6 Periapt of Wisdom, +1 Impact Ward Cestus (assumes DM counts it as unarmed, and it's cheaper than an Amulet of Mighty ShitFists), Boots of Speed, and Potions of Divine Power.
Base Stats (32 pt buy, 4th level point in Dex, 8th[and 12th] in Wis) were 16, 17, 10, 12, 17[18], 10 for 22, 17, 10, 12, 23[24], 10 under influence of items. Human, of course.

Completely fucking stupid, and I'm sure other classes can get even more damage, even easier (fuck, blink rogue is probably like twice this, eh?), but amusing, to me.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:15 am

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
PhoneLobster wrote:Heath Ledger's performance, which again while quiet possibly the best thing about the movie was really only barely passable and arguably the least good Joker ever
There's no way that Heath Ledger made a worse Joker than Cesar Romero, and it's a really hard sell to say he was worse than Jack Nicholson's Joker.

I thought Cesar Romero was a good Joker. Considering what the standards of the time were and how the character was perceived, he managed to be as threatening as one could be when kept to PG. Furthermore, he did set the basics for a lot of the character's mannerisms and speech pattern. You have to start somewhere, people!

I like Jack Nicholson, but I am not sure I liked him as The Joker. Although I don't think I disliked him, I would say that he was the one I liked the least as Joker.

As for Heath Ledger, I wonder if he would have been considered so great if Christian Bale wasn't phoning it in during The Dark Knight. I think Ledger did an excellent job, but Bale wasn't playing his "A" game in that movie in my opinion.

I wouldn't call The Dark Knight the best batman movie, or even the best Batman movie that Nolan has done. But I found it enjoyable.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:20 am

Really what made Dark Knight great was the fact that it was gritty crime drama, and then you pull back a moment and... "Fucker's dressed like a bat!!"

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:32 am

Gonna be honest I didn't like Batman Begins but I liked Dark Knight a lot and found Rises to be "ok". I think DK's joker was great. I know that Heath's death didn't make me enjoy the movie better and it seems like a silly notion that his death would even do that. Hell, I didn't even make the association when I first heard he died.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:59 pm

Ted the Flayer wrote: As for Heath Ledger, I wonder if he would have been considered so great if Christian Bale wasn't phoning it in during The Dark Knight. I think Ledger did an excellent job, but Bale wasn't playing his "A" game in that movie in my opinion.

What do you mean by "phoning it in"? Just an overall feel, or something specific?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:19 am

My latest earworm is some psychobilly sideproject by Sparky & the Deadbillys from '05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThbCmlys4L8

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:54 am

Have I mentioned Beyond The Black Rainbow around here?

Because it should be mentioned. A very nice unique horror film.

So first point. This is a visually pretty awesome movie, don't let the trailer fool you, it's a NEW movie, it's just set in the (sci fi) past. And it's just that good at it.

Aside from that I can't talk about much of the things that make it good without spoilers. If you have any sense, don't read the spoilers and just watch the damn thing.

The only criticism of the film I really have.

It was sometimes hard to follow the dialogue clearly. Maybe it was my copy. Maybe it was just that basically every line in the movie is delivered by a character that is one way or another very heavily drugged.

It didn't really matter. There isn't actually all that much actual dialogue AT ALL in this movie. And I don't think it was altogether important anyway. Normally that in itself would be a problem with a movie. But it seems to work OK here.

So the bit where it started to get good.

When the nurse uncovers the patient's files by accident. She decides to read them out of curiosity and YOU the viewer by now want to read them over her shoulder just to find out what the hell is supposed to be going on.

Very quickly the nurse and the viewer derive the only useful bit of information you are going to really get from the files. That being "Oh crap".

The big "twist"

The movie arguable has more than one twist or subtext or message or whatever to it. Some deliberately unclear and insane.

But the best bit is the creeping suspicion, that is fairly reasonably confirmed at the end, that you MIGHT just be rooting for the wrong side the whole movie.

The ending basically leaving you going "So... is this the good ending or the bad one?"

It's all very "Who is the monster? Are they all monsters? Or victims? Or Both? And who was really in control through all this, if anyone was at all?" sorta stuff.

I probably should have revived the actual recommendation thread where ever it was for this, but whatever.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:01 am

Goddamn, I almost peed I laughed so hard at parts of this:

If Dark Knight Rises was 10 times shorter and more honest

cracked wrote: CHRISTIAN BALE learns how to be BAT-BALE again, with the aid of a BAT-LEGBRACE for his leg and a BAT-LEGBRACE for his shoulder.

CHRISTIAN BALE

This legbrace gives me a super-powerful kick that I will never use at all, I'm not sure why we're even showing any of this!

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 am

I liked:

Cracked wrote:JOSEPH GORDON-LEVITT

I'm glad you're coming back. I know everyone blames you for Eckhart's death, but I know better, because Batman never kills!

CHRISTIAN BALE

Actually, I did kill Aaron Eckhart. People keep acting like I falsely took the blame for that, but it was the murder of cops that I took the blame for. I straight-up shoved Eckhart off a building and he fell to his death.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:16 am

RobbyPants wrote:
Ted the Flayer wrote: As for Heath Ledger, I wonder if he would have been considered so great if Christian Bale wasn't phoning it in during The Dark Knight. I think Ledger did an excellent job, but Bale wasn't playing his "A" game in that movie in my opinion.
What do you mean by "phoning it in"? Just an overall feel, or something specific?

Sorry, I just noticed that today.

It's... hard to put my finger on it. He just seemed to be not "with it". Sorry, I'm not good at intelligent criticism.

And speaking of which, although I liked Dark Knight Rises, I submit that it was the worst of the three movies. Still enjoyable in its own way, but I don't feel like it was quite as good as the first two...

violence in the media · Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:56 am

In other movie news, I saw the Expendables 2 the other day and it was so hilariously awful that it wrapped back around to awesome.

Parts of the dialogue consisted of nothing more than (forced) references to previous movies or things someone in the scene had done. The bad guy was named Villain Vilain. There was a Chuck Norris joke.

I'm not sure if Stallone was aiming for action comedy, but he succeeded.